Richard Oliver

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Posts by Richard Oliver

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  5

  Church Property Ownership

  by Richard Oliver in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have been reading a lot of cases that have to do with church property, especially when the church is affiliated with a larger national church.

  it looks like the most common of these is episcopal churches.

  a lot of episcopal churches wanted to disaffiliate with the national church when the national church ordained an openly gay bishop, the local churches wanted to join the anglican church of uganda.

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  Richard Oliver

  Sparrowdown:

  I only used the Episcopal Church and the gay bishop as an example where a local church wants to leave the national church. The local church wanted to take the property with them when they left but the national church said that they couldn't take the property, that the property still belonged to the national church.

  Blondie:

  I don't understand what you point is. The rule that you point too is pretty much stating that no one can derive financial benefit from the non-profit and that the non-profit cannot engage in political activity unless they will lose their tax-exempt status.
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  5

  Church Property Ownership

  by Richard Oliver in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have been reading a lot of cases that have to do with church property, especially when the church is affiliated with a larger national church.

  it looks like the most common of these is episcopal churches.

  a lot of episcopal churches wanted to disaffiliate with the national church when the national church ordained an openly gay bishop, the local churches wanted to join the anglican church of uganda.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  I have been reading a lot of cases that have to do with church property, especially when the church is affiliated with a larger national church. It looks like the most common of these is Episcopal Churches. A lot of Episcopal Churches wanted to disaffiliate with the national church when the national church ordained an openly gay bishop, the local churches wanted to join the Anglican Church of Uganda. Many of the dioceses of the Episcopal Church then sued to get the church property and funds back, where the diocese and the national church won. I wanted to get peoples opinion on this especially as a similarity to JWs and the claim that Watchtower is taking away congregation property.
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  11

  Australia - Brisbane Times: Authorities ignored Gold Coast photographer's child sex crimes

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/authorities-ignored-gold-coast-photographers-child-sex-crimes-20170413-gvkdx9.html.

  april 13 2017 .

  authorities ignored gold coast photographer's child sex crimes .

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  Richard Oliver

  It does show that you cannot just take the 1006 number that has been published by the ARC as being the number that was never reported to a secular authority that deals with this. It is true that it the number of perpetrators within the congregations since the records started in the 1960s, but it doesn't mean that they weren't reported to authorities. It was reported, even though it wasn't the organization that reported it, it was reported. That is where the ARC and the Branch has some contention in wording. Even in the second hearing Angus Stewart wanted proof that the Organization was the one who reported these events, but as the Branch reps pointed out parents or elders or others may have reported the matter and that didn't require the Branch to do the actual reporting but that it was reported to authorities.
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  11

  The West Australian: Jehovah Witness charged with historic child sex offences

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/jehovah-witness-charged-with-historic-child-sex-offences-ng-b88453246z.

  jehovah witness charged with historic child sex offences.

  friday, 21 april 2017 3:11am.

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  Richard Oliver

  As reported in a previous post the man was not charged even though he confessed to child services for the province. The elders disfellowshiped him and that was his only punishment. The police did not charge him with a crime.
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  11

  Australia - Brisbane Times: Authorities ignored Gold Coast photographer's child sex crimes

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/authorities-ignored-gold-coast-photographers-child-sex-crimes-20170413-gvkdx9.html.

  april 13 2017 .

  authorities ignored gold coast photographer's child sex crimes .

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  Richard Oliver

  Infact the congregations disfellowshipping was the only sanctions that he suffered from those actions.
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  115

  Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?

  by aboveusonlysky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?

  has such a thing been tried before?.

  https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .

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  Richard Oliver

  Also as a reminder most constitutions only bar the state from encroaching into a person's constitutionally protected rights, there is very little that stops a private individual or institution from doing that unless otherwise prescribed by law. That is why the KKK and other hate groups still operate in free countries like the USA. You can spout out hate speech all you want you can't induce a person to assault or kill someone but you can preach hate. Even in France one of the major candidates for President is accused as being a hate monger.
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  115

  Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?

  by aboveusonlysky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?

  has such a thing been tried before?.

  https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .

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  Richard Oliver

  The other problem that you would have in order to make shunning illegal is that each baptized member prior to them being baptized is given a copy of the church's bylaws and is encouraged to read them. In fact prior to baptism the questions to determine if someone can qualify for baptism is taken out of that book. That book on page 140 states:

  IF THE DECISION IS TO DISFELLOWSHIP

  25 In some cases, the wrongdoer will have become hardened in his course of sinful conduct and will thus fail to respond to efforts to help him. Sufficient “works that befit repentance” may not be in evidence at the time of the judicial hearing. (Acts 26:20) What then? In such cases, it is necessary to expel the unrepentant wrongdoer from the congregation, thus denying him fellowship with Jehovah’s clean people. The bad influence of the wrongdoer is removed from the congregation, thereby safeguarding its moral and spiritual cleanness and protecting its good name.

  Each person who is baptized agrees to live by those bylaws.
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  115

  Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?

  by aboveusonlysky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?

  has such a thing been tried before?.

  https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .

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  Richard Oliver

  I know that people will say that this is a strawman argument but it is something to think about. Look at a few months ago a man in Australia was put on trial for child abuse and was found not guilty. That man was disfellowshipped from the congregation prior to the trial. So if there was no disfellowshipping then that man would still be in good standing in the congregation. So you have to be careful how you want to deal with a situation and the unintended consequences.
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  115

  Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?

  by aboveusonlysky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?

  has such a thing been tried before?.

  https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Richard Oliver

  And in about a year you will be able to see how a government handles shunning. It does appear that the ARC is going to add that into their report to the Australian government, so you will be able to see the political will that a democratic government has on this subject.
• 
  115

  Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?

  by aboveusonlysky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?

  has such a thing been tried before?.

  https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Richard Oliver

  If you think that a first world Democratic country will make it illegal than you should certainly try and then see if it is not struck down in the courts so you may see the fruits of your labor in 5 years or so.